FvF Source Code and conditions of the GPL

JUGGERNAUT · Post by **JUGGERNAUT** » Sun Dec 10, 2006 9:32 pm

Since Quake is officially now under the GNU General Public License, I have been doing some research in regards to the Future vs. Fantasy mod.

After extensively combing over the wording of the GPL license found at

http://www.fsf.org/licensing/licenses/gpl.html

I can see what would result to be a number of potential violations. I'm going to ask nicely a few more times for the source code to the FvF 2.09 available for download (read: NOT the version played on the server as that is not available for download) before sending an email to gnu@gnu.org.

Let's examine the facts.

* Does the distribution contain a copy of the License?

No.

* Does it clearly state which software is covered by the License? Does it say anything misleading, perhaps giving the impression that something is covered by the License when in fact it is not?

No information given in the distribution.

* Is source code included in the distribution?

No.

* Is a written offer for source code included with a distribution of just binaries?

No offer supplied. Only compiled binaries and game assets.

So, while there may be a loophole that allows for withholding the source code for the modifications on the server, this loophole does not in fact cover the version of FvF 2.09 available for download on http://fvfonline.com/

Obviously the person to contact would be the people at Freeform Interactive. However as any user can plainly see, the website is now defunct http://www.freeforminteractive.com/

Making Gunter the sole gatekeeper of the FvF source code.

Personally I would simply like to examine the sources for pedagogical gain in regards to QuakeC. Maybe others would have plans to bork the sources to hell and completely bastardize FvF, but frankly that doesn't matter and is the preogative of the end user and within their rights afforded under the GPL.

...This also isn't even to mention how many copyright infringements are occuring within the dance loops alone.

The choice is simple: offer up the sources. If this does not happen within a reasonable amount of time, these various infringements will be made public, leading to a whole mess of potential problems.

I would not like to see this happen, but I may have no choice. Quake is protected under the GPL and as a user of free software I choose to exercise my rights afforded under this license, whether others choose to or not.

Joao Lucas · Post by **Joao Lucas** » Sun Dec 10, 2006 10:31 pm

Let me see if I got it: If gunter doesn't give you the FvF source code, you will report him to whoever-you-say? Bastard!

Gunter · Post by **Gunter** » Sun Dec 10, 2006 10:35 pm

First of all, no compiled binaries/software are being distributed at all(read:executables), therefore your smarmy lawyering is completely pointless and stupid.

Second, even if some part of the GNU did apply to distributing progs.dat resource files to be used with Quake (and I don't even think the progs.dat code was under GPL.... if so, prove it), all I would do is delete the progs.dat from the download for clients..... IF any of that applied, which I don't think it does.

Third, I have the source code that Hap released for Registered FvF, and would have sent it to you, but not now, and I never will, because I don't respond well to threats, hahah..... Good luck finding it elsewhere.

Fourth, you're a cockgobbling faglicker for trying to threaten me with e-mailing this to the gnu people, who, I'm sure, don't give a flying fiend's ass about a Quake mod, and I will certainly dogrape your ass to death the next time I see you on the server.

Carry on.

JUGGERNAUT · Post by **JUGGERNAUT** » Sun Dec 10, 2006 10:54 pm

Gunter wrote:First of all, no compiled binaries/software are being distributed at all(read:executables), therefore your smarmy lawyering is completely pointless and stupid.

Second, even if some part of the GNU did apply to distributing progs.dat resource files to be used with Quake (and I don't even think the progs.dat code was under GPL.... if so, prove it), all I would do is delete the progs.dat from the download for clients..... IF any of that applied, which I don't think it does.

Third, I have the source code that Hap released for Registered FvF, and would have sent it to you, but not now, and I never will, because I don't respond well to threats, hahah..... Good luck finding it elsewhere.

Fourth, you're a cockgobbling faglicker for trying to threaten me with e-mailing this to the gnu people, who, I'm sure, don't give a flying fiend's ass about a Quake mod, and I will certainly dogrape your ass to death the next time I see you on the server.

Carry on.

Hahaha ohhh did I hit a nerve

You would've never sent anything. You love being the gatekeeper and I dont have a problem with that. However, you may have just shot yourself in the foot with your inflammatory remarks.

Progs.dat is compiled by qcc as binary. Binary does not necessarily mean executables.

Quake and any modifications made to it are protected under GPL. Not only that but you are violating numerous copyrights in the dance loops.

I have saved this conversation. You will be hearing more about this in the future from third parties. You had your chance.

2. You may modify your copy or copies of the Program or any portion of it, thus forming a work based on the Program, and copy and distribute such modifications or work under the terms of Section 1 above, provided that you also meet all of these conditions:

a) You must cause the modified files to carry prominent notices stating that you changed the files and the date of any change.

b) You must cause any work that you distribute or publish, that in whole or in part contains or is derived from the Program or any part thereof, to be licensed as a whole at no charge to all third parties under the terms of this License.

c) If the modified program normally reads commands interactively when run, you must cause it, when started running for such interactive use in the most ordinary way, to print or display an announcement including an appropriate copyright notice and a notice that there is no warranty (or else, saying that you provide a warranty) and that users may redistribute the program under these conditions, and telling the user how to view a copy of this License. (Exception: if the Program itself is interactive but does not normally print such an announcement, your work based on the Program is not required to print an announcement.)

You should really read up on this before flaming.

Joao Lucas · Post by **Joao Lucas** » Sun Dec 10, 2006 11:01 pm

What's your problem, Juggernaut?

JUGGERNAUT · Post by **JUGGERNAUT** » Sun Dec 10, 2006 11:14 pm

Joao Lucas wrote:What's your problem, Juggernaut?

http://forums.filefront.com/showthread. ... post375627

Hap wrote: /me thinks we should just give away FvF at this point.

JaCKo wrote: /me thinks that would be a great idea...
/me would love to offer the registered version for download at the FvF site and run a dedicated server with it.
/me would be very happy...

Gunter · Post by **Gunter** » Mon Dec 11, 2006 12:24 am

Jugger, you're just being a douche.

progs.dat is not a program, it's a support file. Just like proquake is released with those security dll's with no source code for them, because source code is not required for them. I'm not distributing a modified version of Quake. I'm distributing the progs.dat, which ID Software encourages and doesn't care about source code for. Hey, maybe you 'd better call the software police on every other site that lets you download quake mods, or those Quake Expansion Packs, because they do not include source code. You are a dumbass.

Also, using 4 to 15 second samples of songs is clearly covered under "fair use," and if you really think anyone cares about that, then how come the RIAA hasn't shut down NewGround.com, since so many of their flash videos contain song clips? You are a dumbass.

Do you honestly think doing any of this will get you any source code? Well, maybe you do, since you are a dumbass. But it won't.

Ohnoes, he's gonna sue us!! Better sue YouTube first, for hosting copyrighted material such as this without permission:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XcDuh4QiyLg

Oh, and yes, FvF Registerd is free. They were talking about the mod, not the source code though, and you can download it from Jacko's site.
The source code is also free, of course, since Hap gave it out, but nobody FORCED Hap to give it out.
I don't know where you can find that. I have a copy, but I'm not sending it to you. Because you're a dumbass.

JUGGERNAUT · Post by **JUGGERNAUT** » Mon Dec 11, 2006 2:04 am

You have made your position clear.

I have no further comments.

Post by **gulliver-trans** » Mon Dec 11, 2006 3:56 am

This is a strange thing to obsess over, Juggernaut. And your first post is totally cocky. Time for an ego check? Also: Holy drama! Also also: great way to make friends.

Joao Lucas · Post by **Joao Lucas** » Mon Dec 11, 2006 8:50 am

Juggernaut changed my mind. From nice friend, to great idiot.

Gunter · Post by **Gunter** » Mon Dec 11, 2006 2:19 pm

In case there's any further doubt about the validity of claiming I have to release mod source code:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/QuakeC wrote: The QuakeC source to the original id Software Quake game logic was published in 1996 and used as the basis for modifications like capture the flag and others. QuakeC source code is compiled using a tool called qcc into a bytecode kept in a file called progs.dat. The programmers of Quake modifications could then publish their progs.dat bytecode without revealing their source code. Most Quake mods were published this way.

And yes, it was pretty jerky....

JUGGERNAUT: "Hey you should add dance music to the intermission scenes!"

ME: "I like that idea, I'll put it in."

later

JUGGERNAUT: "Oh, man, that's awesome! Thanks for putting that in!"

later

JUGGERNAUT: "You have illegal music downloads for your dance loops and if I don't get what I want I'm gonna report you!!"

RocketGuy · Post by **RocketGuy** » Mon Dec 11, 2006 2:23 pm

Gunter wrote:I have a copy

so do i

, hmm... what to do..

Canadian*Sniper · Post by **Canadian*Sniper** » Mon Dec 11, 2006 4:42 pm

I remember having this conversation with Gunter years ago

You're just going to get the "then sue me!" response

I wouldn't mind having the mod version gunter uses so I could host lans of that mod but I don't give a FF enough to obsess over it.

actually, id software sueing Gunter might put them back in business

JUGGERNAUT · Post by **JUGGERNAUT** » Tue Dec 12, 2006 12:23 am

Gunter wrote:In case there's any further doubt about the validity of claiming I have to release mod source code:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/QuakeC wrote: The QuakeC source to the original id Software Quake game logic was published in 1996 and used as the basis for modifications like capture the flag and others. QuakeC source code is compiled using a tool called qcc into a bytecode kept in a file called progs.dat. The programmers of Quake modifications could then publish their progs.dat bytecode without revealing their source code. Most Quake mods were published this way.

Yeah, ok. Just keep placing validity on a user definable archive. Wikipedia is the farthest thing from legally binding that exists. You or I could go in at this moment and change that to be anything. Your argument holds as much water as a wet paper bag.

Gunter wrote: And yes, it was pretty jerky....

GULLIVER-TRANS: "Hey you should add dance music to the intermission scenes!"

ME: "I like that idea, I'll put it in."

later

GULLIVER-TRANS: "Oh, man, that's awesome! Thanks for putting that in!"

later

JUGGERNAUT: "You have illegal music downloads for your dance loops and if you don't follow the conditions outlined by the GPL I'm report you!!"

Fixed. Go back to newgrounds.

Canadian*Sniper · Post by **Canadian*Sniper** » Tue Dec 12, 2006 12:48 am

I didn't know the juggernaut was such a pansy when it comes to breaking the law