Project Guilt Trip

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Spectrum Vixen

Project Guilt Trip

Post by Spectrum Vixen » Tue Sep 11, 2007 10:47 am

That's right, I'm working on a mod.

Heres my idea: a hybrid co-op deathmatch game variant in which players are separated into two races (monsters and humans) and multiple classes for each race, but at the same time, will NOT be a future versus fantasy mod clone, but something new entirely, never the like seen before in any mod so far!

The basic premise: Players fight their way through the levels in teams. One team is comprised of the forces of humanity, fighting their way through the hell-dimensions of quake, fighting the other team of players, which is comprised of monster charachters.

This would have several game types:
---------------------
Siege

Humansiege, in which humanity fights their way through the forces of hell and take over levels, with the demon team on the defense. Demons have normal quake monsters on their side to aid in defense.

Demonsiege, which is the opposite, with humanity on the defense, the demons fighting from the beginning to take over levels from humanity.
Humanity has new monsters, creatures of the new classes introduced in the mod for humanity, to aid in defense.

Demonsiege and Humansiege are interchangable, creating one game type: Siege. If one side loses, the other team has to fight their way through again to reclaim it, going back and forth (good for persistant gameplay).

Outposts are lost and retaken in realtime: if either team has no active checkpoints taken over at any point in a level, the gametype changes, and the levels cycle in the appropriate direction, with the appropriate team on defense (for example, if humanity just took over the Slipgate Complex, only to be routed in the Grisly Grotto where monsters were on defense, the map would go back to the Slipgate Complex, with humanity on the defense this time!

To 'dominate' an area, kills means little more than bragging rights, its the checkpoints along the course of the levels that matter. If all checkpoints in a level are dominated by one team at any point, that fortress is considered 'lost' and the next level in sequence is selected, and the attacking team.

At endpoints of the four episodes (For example, in the Slipgate Complex, and in the House of Chthon there are runes (at each end, only the ending team able to recieve it. In the first level, the offensive team would have it) that turn the player that recieves it into a Boss Charachter (half damage taken, double damage dealt, cannot be the subject of certain special abilities classes have) and becomes a living checkpoint. This makes the last level of Siege the hardest, for not only does the defending team have monsters, a team of players, and the level itself on their side, but the figurehead of their war machine on their side.

---------------

War, similar to Siege, but different in that both teams start on equal terms in the middle of it all, with no supporting monsters to aid either, with fully unlocked levels and open fareways (Which Siege lacks) like in Quest fvf mode. The checkpoint bit remains, with the same rules as in siege.

---------------

Classic dethmatch (o'course! No structure ^^)
Normal Coop (duh)
and
Quest mode (with permission ^^)
---------------

Like fvf, there will be multiple classes.
UN-like fvf, each class is drastically different, and gameplay is heavily streamlined. No leveling system for Siege or War (but maybe for quest, again if I am allowed to use that), and players have much more specific powers, and not all are combat-oriented.

Each side has six classes:
Humanity:

Knight: A master of the melee arts
Archer: A master of ranged combat and trick shooting
Thief: A quick killer with a variety of abilities
Warlock: A primary damage dealer with a lot of destructive abilities. Flies.
Healer: Obvious, but they have buffs too
Defender: A warrior that uses impressive defensive abilities as a weapon.

Monsters:

Demon: agressive and highly mobile combatant
Shambler: Big, hulking bruiser, great at both dealing and sucking up damage
Scrag: Flies like the Warlock, blasting death and destruction
Ogre: A balanced charachter with good ranged and melee abilities.
Hell Knight: ITs almost like... a knight-warlock crossed with a thief.
Vore: Blow. Shit. up. Offensive master.

and of course, Classic marine action ^^

These are really broad generalizations... each class has a lot of quirks and abilities the others simply do not have in any way, and different ways of handling similar abilities that some classes share.

Its going to be a huge undertaking, with much love and time devoted to it... but it will be something truly awesome when its complete. Who's with me?

Spectrum Vixen

Re: Project Guilt Trip

Post by Spectrum Vixen » Tue Sep 11, 2007 11:34 am

Project Guilt Trip planning:

The Basic System (Races)

All classes are completely different variants of the original player, with their own models and fundamental gameplay styles (like how a quake marine can jump but cannot crouch, and the doom marine cannot crouch, for a stupid example)

This is a lot easier to implement than you might think... it uses code similar to the code used in the Morph mod, just modified ^ - ^

Here are some of my ideas on the racial traits, between Humans and Monsters, and what that would mean in gameplay.

But, as a rule of thumb...

All humans can:
-Pick up and use Armor
-Use the Swinging Grapple Hook (yes, this mod will use a swinger, not a puller. Makes more sense.)

All monsters can:
-Eat gibs to recover health and cut bodies up into gibs for their use.
-start with larger ammounts of health than normal charachters (or something else, depending on how that balances out)
-Recover health over time


As a Race...

Humans are better at teamwork, because they have classes that compliment one another, but are less resilient than a monster charachter.
A group of humans is exponentially more dangerous than a single human. (A knight is dangerous. A knight with an archer backup is very dangerous. A knight with archer backup and a healer right behind him is a force to be reckoned with, for example.)
The Human team does not have friendly fire.

Monsters are tougher than humans and last longer, but their abilities are not group-friendly and rarely compliment one another. One monster is deadly, but four or five of different types step on each other's toes (For example, a Vore and a Demon team would end up as a very lonely vore and a very blown up demon.)
The Monster team DOES have friendly fire (teammate attacks DO hurt them, always)

What that would play like in an average game of War or Siege:
Humans do mass-raids and attack in large groups, while monsters prefer to organize in small groups, and use roam-and-reave tactics. Humans like hallways, monsters like open spaces.

In deathmatch, the racial traits would largely be standardized and toned down, with monster health disabled, though monsters would still be able to eat gibs and heal over time, and humans would still be able to pick up armor and use the grapple.

In Coop, being a monster is both a boon and a liability. They'd take friendly fire damage, and human players would not, and because they're monsters, they could be mistaken for the monsters being hunted, so they'd have their bonus health privilages restored ^ - ^

Spectrum Vixen

Re: Project Guilt Trip

Post by Spectrum Vixen » Tue Sep 11, 2007 1:06 pm

Combat

The way I envision this, combat is streamlined and more skill based than "HU HZ TEH BST WPN 4PWNAGE?!" or "OMFG MAH ROCKETS!"

That was nonsense in the first place. This won't be a rocket run game, it'll require actual skill AND an itchy trigger finger to get good at ^ - ^

Heres my vision:
The mod will play like the bastard child of Halo and Super smash brothers raised by Soul Calibur while it was in the middle of a love affair with Breakdown, if that makes any sense.

Players don't pick up any weapons, they start with all the weapons and abilities they are ever going to get. For how I see it right now, that ammounts to several special abilities unique to the class chosen, and three or four skill trees.

A skill tree is a set of behaviors that works differently in different situations. For example, as a hell knight, their basic weapon, a sword, is simply swung when they are close to an opponent. When they are far away and attacking a foe at range, however, they would use their magic ranged attack. Shit like that, but more complicated. What happens if the hell knight uses that weapon in a jump? How about it turns into a leaping, head-chopper cut! While underwater? Perhaps a charge attack that propels them in the water! These different trees would be different disciplines, yet all balanced together in such a way that they would compare well to a class of similar abilities, like a hell knight to a knight, or a vore to a warlock, and in deathmatch against one another one-on-one.

Instead of ammunition, and making all this too complicated with multiple ammo types, all classes utilize Stamina, which regenerates when the player is at rest.

Ideas for skill trees and charachter classes:

----------------
Demon
Demons have a few abilities that exist in them no matter what skill tree. Unlike a Quake Fiend, Demon, in this mod, is quite different, with a pair of wings and the ability to use a few rudimentary ranged attacks.

-Super jumping, the power to leap great distances, like a flea.

-For short periods, Demons can take to flight on wing (it works like this: if they try to jump while already in the air, they give a 'flap', like how wings might work. Tapping the jump button just flaps these wings, but holding the jump key makes them glide. Repeatedly tapping the jump key lets them gain altitude.

Demons cannot be hurt by lava, regenerating stamina more quickly in it. In water, they cannot regenerate stamina, and acid, in addition to hurting them, drains their stamina as well.

Normal: (close) Normal claw attack combo thingy
(Far) Shoots several hellknight-like bolts of energy in a spray
(Underwater(far) An underwater charge attack that propels them quickly and damages foes they bump into
(Underwater(close) When near a foe, they might heat the water around them and deal area damage and a bit to self
(While Jumping(close) A melee attack that does extra damage.
(While Jumping(far) extra distance and damage on an impact with a target
(while wingflying(close) An airfist-like buffet of the wings that can throw things.
(while Wingflying(far) A spray of weak firebolts that have little explosions with tiny ranges.
A fiend using this power set gets no special benefits.

(This tree would not use much stamina when used, making it standard. It is the basis for all others, and all classes have a 'Normal' mode.)

Brute: (close) A claw attack that throws opponents
(far) A shambler lightning attack that has a little knockback
(underwater(Close) A water discharge of lightning, dealing large ammounts of area damage, half to self, to all near them when close to an opponent.
(underwater(far) A heavy-duty, hot lavaball attack that burns those near it, and does explosion damage. Hurts the demon a little)
(while jumping(close) A claw attack that forcibly knocks a foe earthward and briefly stuns them
(while jumping(far) A downward slam that deals damage to all near the impact, and falling damage to the fiend.
(in wing flight(close) the demon does a stunning claw attack, causing foes to be unable to move for a moment, making them plummet.
(in wingflight(far) The demon does a burning divebomb attack that heavily damages and throws aside a foe they strike.
A demon using the brute powers can scale a wall or cling to it. PAssively consumes a tiny bit of stamina to cling.
Flight gives a lot more thrust per flap when in the strong skill set, but the demon cannot glide in this power set.

(This power set, while very strong, eats up stamina VERY quickly, thus is best used in bursts)

Quick Tree (close) The demon freaks out and attacks all within arm's reach in a frenzy, doing less than normal claw damage, yet doing that damage more often and to a wider array of clientelle
(far) Short-range teleportations, in rapid succession. Impact teleportations do damage of a jump attack.
(underwater(close) Again with the rapidclaw-ing!
(underwater(far) a rapid-fire burst of mini-fireballs ^^
(jumping(close) Accelerates the jump into the ground with the opponent stuck in front of it, dealing those struck extra damage in addition to the jump attack damage.
(jumping(far) Lightning-link, a weak bolt of lighting fired, and contacting something, it pulls the fiend to it. The bolt only goes so far, though, but otherwise works like the grappling hook. Once the fiend gets there, it detatches.
(in wingflight(close) A melee strike that bounces the fiend off, just barely within range, only to rush right back in and repeat the attack. This attack's recoil distance is too far for most melee attacks to hit, and too close for most far attacks to trigger out, forcing foes to move.
(in wingflight (far) A ranged lightning strike that does claw damage to a small area of impact.
A demon using the Quick power set moves much faster than normal.
A demon using the Quick power set burns up stamina VERY quickly, constantly burning it up just by using the set, in addition to using attacks with the set.
A demon using the Quick power set glides in wingflight very quickly, and burns no stamina when doing so.

(This powerset is very useful in that it takes the deadly aspects of a fiend, (its speed of attacks and mobility), and hones them. This is most useful in bursts, for taking out especially dangerous foes quickly, or closing distance with a foe that would much rather stay past arm's length.)

Gameplay: Playing a fiend is especially fun for a player that likes to wreak havoc in melee and get there quickly. Crowd Controll is their purpose, in their element in the fray with multiple foes, the crunchier the better. Their high mobility and flexibility makes them deadly. Their ranged attacks are innacurate and consume a lot of stamina, so they are not practical for prolonged ranged combat, but in theory, they won't need them much.

Difficulty of programming: You'd be shocked at how easy programming the Fiend will actually be. Its not hard at all to define what each weapon does in each situation like this, and Wingflight is not that hard to implement.

Guest

Re: Project Guilt Trip

Post by Guest » Tue Sep 11, 2007 1:21 pm

Execution... how will this work in development terms?

I'm going to do the classes first. Thats for sure. Prolly monsters first. Since this is my first modding experience, I'm going to use this to get good at programming player-oriented things.

Then I'm going to work on map adaptations and modeling, once I've extensively playtested this and fine-tuned it, that is, for the purpose of doing the player monster appearances, and making other mod materials. In this, I'll further streamline code and play for online play as I make new maps and old maps compatible.

Then, I will polish my work, making two versions: A serverside version, and a version I do with new skins, models, and sounds. When I get done with this, you will barely be able to recognize the quake engine. Forever free, of course.

This whole project, depending on how much help I get, this could take anywhere from a few months... to a couple of years. This mod... will rock. That much I can promise.

Guest

Re: Project Guilt Trip

Post by Guest » Tue Sep 11, 2007 1:27 pm

By the way, the reason I posted the fiend here first... is because it's already in progress. I've got a good idea of what I see for it. Once its finished, I'll release the Demon class mod. It'll be a sort of sub-mod, with a human quake marine balanced against the Demon, and the vestiges of the other monster classes there to collectively grunt and nod.

Stamina will NOT be integrated yet, so the Demon will be stronger than it will be later in this first mod release, simply for the fact that it can use its abilities freely and without worry of running out of steam.

If I could get some help assembling the Siege and War game types for this first release, that would be greatly appreciated.. and some help with the Demon class would be sweet too. You're looking at the first steps in a great thing, my friends ^^

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Joao Lucas
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Re: Project Guilt Trip

Post by Joao Lucas » Tue Sep 11, 2007 3:53 pm

Well nice idea, and good luck to you. But a mod where you can play with monsters was already created.

Orl
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Re: Project Guilt Trip

Post by Orl » Tue Sep 11, 2007 4:52 pm

Joao Lucas wrote:But a mod where you can play with monsters was already created.
Certainly wouldn't hurt to have another. They made a deathmatch mod for Quake long ago, but did they stop there? Of course not. I would like to see the progress of this expand and, if possible, become a part of it.

Guest

Re: Project Guilt Trip

Post by Guest » Wed Sep 12, 2007 8:05 am

Yaay! Orl wants to help!... I-think!

What I need most help with is programming gametype and mapping.

If we could get Siege and War gametypes going for the first release, with the Demon and Quake marine classes working, that'd be spiffy because it would still work fully.

Spectrum Vixen

Re: Project Guilt Trip

Post by Spectrum Vixen » Wed Sep 12, 2007 8:10 am

Oh, and Joao, I reinvent the wheel daily when I drive my car >.>; Dont look down on me for coming up with original ideas just because you have seen something a TINY bit like it before. Wanna help? Go buy gumballs with your two cents >.>; that comment was wholly unhelpful and pointless.

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Joao Lucas
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Favorite FvF Class: Laser Android

Re: Project Guilt Trip

Post by Joao Lucas » Wed Sep 12, 2007 10:55 am

I wasn't looking down on you, I even wished you good luck. But now I see how pathetic you are. Can you even program stuff? Or did you just woke up right after a crazy-ass dream wanting to make a mod?

Guest

Re: Project Guilt Trip

Post by Guest » Wed Sep 12, 2007 11:21 am

Seriously dude, what I was saying was
Well nice idea, and good luck to you. But a mod where you can play with monsters was already created.
was a completely cold and useless comment that insulted my intelligence, or REALLY seemed to. Do you really think I'm THAT ignorant? If you really do, you're an arrogant, racist little man... oh wait... thats already true.

Then, you had the gall to pour salt in the wound to agitate things further, as seems to be your nature. My frustration with you, Joao, should have been obvious in my reply to your words in the first place, but now I feel like I really need to lay it into you. Your reply to the voicing of my dissaproval of your putting your two cents into this topic in the first place, ala
I wasn't looking down on you, I even wished you good luck. But now I see how pathetic you are. Can you even program stuff? Or did you just woke up right after a crazy-ass dream wanting to make a mod?
was equally useless and cold: You just had your feelings hurt because I was honest with you, and let you know that your words were wholly unhelpful to me, and really had no point but for you to hear your own voice (or, rather, feel special because you said something), so you insulted me again to make yourself feel better.

I try to be friendly, Joao, with as many people as I can... but you... I see no reason to be. No. Reason. At all. You're horribly racist, egotistical, angsty, cruel, and you speak thoughtlessly because you get mad, and have no idea how to controll your emotions in productive ways. You've been nothing but nasty to me the entire time I've been here, since day one, and I'm sick of it.

So unless you feel like starting to be useful in these conversations, like actually offering help or meaningful input that would contribute to the quality of this project, Joao (which I would be VERY grateful for, by the way) please, or at least putting some more thought into your words, by all means, stop talking. If you wanna keep bickering, lets take it to pms, dude, I don't want to clutter this thread any more with this nonsense.

Spectrum vixen

Re: Project Guilt Trip

Post by Spectrum vixen » Wed Sep 12, 2007 11:37 am

Anyhow, let's move along, shall we?

With the weaponless system this mod will use, I think the system, with complex conditions and whatnot, would not work for a lot of the human charachters, and a lot of the monsters with abilities that require precision and timing to use.

So. For classes that need precision and whatnot, an alternate system.

Mode 1
Mode 2
Mode 3
Special

Normal
Smash

It is much simpler, this method, than a distance and movement based system for ranged classes.

More later, I'm busy in classes

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Joao Lucas
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Re: Project Guilt Trip

Post by Joao Lucas » Wed Sep 12, 2007 12:07 pm

I can't believe this asshole got mad on me because I wished him good luck and just made a point: there is a mod where you can play with monsters already.

Ok, now child, go sleep. Children should do that on the afternoon. Or maybe drink some hot milk and eat cookies. Just so you can keep it in mind, little arrogant-fuck:

FvF > You and your mod

Go advertise your mod at Inside3D, not here. Ass.

Spectrum Vixen

Re: Project Guilt Trip

Post by Spectrum Vixen » Wed Sep 12, 2007 1:35 pm

Here we go. Check this out: I'll use my ideas for this version of the Quake marine, which will prolly be implemented fully in the full release, if me can helps it...

The Quake Marine, or Slipgate Warrior as I'm going to call it, is gonna be different from every other class in the mod in that it does not have particular stamina for all its abilities, but reload times for its different modes instead, making each weapon work differently and have its own, recharging pool of power to manage. The result: the Slipgate Warrior is a walking arsenel, adept at dishing out ranged boo-boos.

I'm going to tailor design each class like this, each one playing like it were from a completely different game.

Mode1: Bullets (Super Shotgun (better damage, slower fire), Super Doublebarrel Shotgun (MUCH better damage, knockback, stunning, but slow.)

Mode2: Explosives (The grenade launcher, with less damage over a bigger radius and a knockback (throws people), and the Rocket launcher, with less damage and a greater radius and knockback. Better for rocket jumping and crowd controll)

Mode3: Rapidfire (The Nailgun. It kicks upwards and does more damage for its increased innacuracy, but does better damage, and the Lightning Gun, which consumes the Rapidfire Guage quickly and does a LITTLE less damage, but throws people like ragdolls!, The rapidfire Weapon Tree is meant to be fired in bursts and has a 100% guage that decreases steadily but rapidly as the weapons go off, then comes back when you take your finger off the trigger. Nailgun eats this pool slowly, and can fire 'dry' from any point within 100% above nothing, but the lightning gun needs to start firing at a full charge.)

Special: Dimensional (This is the fun stuff, quirky things a Slipgate can do that are useful in mobility and combat. This includes the Wormhole gun (lets the Slipgate Warrior 'open' a hole in a wall to move past obstructions, or displace a part of a shot person several feet behind them, dealing damage.) and the Portable Slipgate (which makes a two-way portal only you and members of your team can use to go inbetween. Each player can have a set number of these gateways, likely defined by the server. An industrious player uses these portals to create ease-of-access pathways for themselves and teammates to get to checkpoints and across the level quickly.)

the Slipgate Warrior always:
-Has access to the swinging grappling hook
-Is terribly useful.

They, in the final release, will be a race-neutral class, as they will be too useful to confine to one race. There might be a Monsterous and a Human version of this class simply for ease of implementation in the final versions of this mod, but they'll be muchly the same, but different in little ways (like instead of the grappling hook the monster slipgate warrior would have superjumping, and some weapon differences.)
---------------------------

For all the classes, instead of that condition modifying attacks buisness (no promises, I'm going to do what works in the end for each and every class differently), I think the powerups would modify the way the powers work, or change them completely... More later.

Spectrum Vixen

Re: Project Guilt Trip

Post by Spectrum Vixen » Wed Sep 12, 2007 2:00 pm

Arrite arrite arrite, reading over this stuff and looking at how... well, oversensitive I've been, I think I overreacted at you Joao, and blew some things outa proportion.

I've come to expect attacks from you, Joao... coupled with my terrible day so far, all this seemed pretty cruel to me and I just blew up. NOW who spoke without thinking?

Me. And I apologize. I mean... fuck, I'm the one who went on this big rant. You're right, it was a little childish of me. I was trying to sound all high and mighty there, and again, I apologize, so lemme say what I shoulda said in the first place, Joao:

Thank you for
Well nice idea, and good luck to you.
It blindsided me that you said that, and all I heard was insults. As for the rest of what you said... um... walnuts <.<; Squirrels like walnuts, and Walnuts taste like happy.

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